tipperaryred

Very true Marcin. We have enough clear images to know that it *should* be a turtleneck, but it may be hard to find this "off the shelf". As Kevin says, I think we should leave both options open. If someone finds or makes a turtleneck top that meets the description, great. If they can only find a top with a low cut neck and cannot get it modified, they should be allowed to wear a neck seal so long as it is the same material as the top. Something like the following? It is permitted to wear a separate neck seal if a turtleneck top is not worn. However, the neck seal should perfectly match the colour and material of the upper part of the flight suit, so that it appears to be the same garment when the chest armour is worn on top.

And just a little bit more on the shaping at the bottom of the faceplate: The bottom edges of the lower cheek plates should look like a straight line from the front. The top and bottom edges of the teeth should be slightly curved. Also, the bottom points of the red face plate seem to stick out slightly, so that they are lower than both the cheek plates and the bottom edge of the teeth.

Just to be extra clear on what I meant about the main proportions, this is what I mean: You can leave the middle part around the eye visor exactly as it is.

Looks spot on to me... Fantastic work folks.

I had time at lunch to start on the detailed exam, so here's what I have for the front view so far. I put the front view side by side with the best screen we have, resized to match the scale. I then took measurements to see how everything compared. It's incredible how close you've already got so many of the features already! I then prepared a summary of where I think we could get it more accurate: Don't worry about some of the tiny percentages, I'm not suggesting that if the right antenna isn't 3% shorter it's going to fail clearance 😁 So if it's going to take 12 hours to make a 3% change somewhere, please don't wasting your time on tiny stuff that no one will notice! This is just to try and find out what the "perfect" helmet is, compared to what you've already created. It's entirely up to you how close you want to get it. I'm also very aware this is an animated helmet that we're recreating, so realistically you may need to change some of the proportions slightly so that it actually fits on a human head! In summary though, the main points: Both antennae could be slightly shorter and thinner. The dome needs to be slightly taller, while the lower half of the helmet needs to be slightly shorter. Earcaps need to be a little narrower. Central visor needs to be slightly narrower. Top and bottom cheek panels need to be slightly less curved. I think the hollow where the top and bottom plates meet is currently too deep and sharp. The bottom edges of the helmet should look almost straight from the front view. The recessed panel line above the eye visor could maybe be a tiny bit narrower. Where the top panel lines run over the ears, they should be angle back gradually, not running straight up at 90 degrees. Everything else looks great to me. The main eye visor in particularly is absolutely perfect!

Before we move on to the next section, can I confirm that we're happy to go with just a turtleneck for the upper flight suit, as opposed to a specialised neck seal? The concept art does clear show some skin around the top of the neck, so I would assume no neck seal or balaclava is required?

That's brilliant, thanks. It's tallies up with Craig's memory, and I can easily imagine a yellow LED looking white on screen when right next to a deep red LED. Especially taking account of the glaring lighting that was so often overhead.

Thanks a million mate. But yes, last thing we want is any of you guys getting in difficulty, so please don't feel under pressure. If need be we can just go with what appears on screen. I'm sure there's plenty more aspects of the costume that you guys can help with that don't risk putting you on the Mouse's bad side!

Thanks Ardeshir for reaching out to them. Unfortunately we do now have a difference between the on screen images and the on set recollections. Every time the helmet appears on screen in Kenobi, the top LED is noticeably lighter than the bottom one: Craig also remembered clearly on set that one of the LEDs was an orange/yellow colour while the other was red. From your memory, was there no difference at all between the top and bottom LEDs? If so is there any chance of finding any photos or screens to support this? As a general rule with CRLs, the on screen images have to be the number one resource that we use, so it would be very difficult to overrule what appears on the final reel without some clear supporting evidence.

Your rough shape there is exactly what I am seeing in the reference shots too. Once it's stretched out a bit and the gaps filled in, I think you'll have it perfect.

I did yes, thanks a million for that. I'm not seeing any additional issues with it yet, but I'm going to sit down this weekend with all the reference screens I have. We want to make sure that it's as close to perfect as we can get it 🙂

Perfect, I think we may be ready to move onto the chest/shoulder/abdominal armour. Great work all!

Good point on keeping the weathering wording consistent wherever we can. Maybe "Light to moderate weathering, grey in colour" across the board? If we find a piece of armour that doesn't match that, we can specify? Certainly looking back to the helmet, there's a lot more there than I first appreciated, especially on the dome. In all three pics you can see it matching the shoulder weathering exactly: It's also extremely visible on the leg greaves: And to some extent on the torso armour (especially around the chest area):

Ok thanks, we shall wait to hear. Certainly on screen they looked like different colours from every angle and under all lighting conditions, so it's important to get that cleared up. Regarding the rest of the draft helmet CRL, is everyone now in agreement with all the other parts aside from LED colours?

Just to be clear, we're talking about the two lights on the side of the helmet you can see below: On screen it looked like it was red at the bottom, white on the top. However we were told by people on set the top one was more of an orange/yellow. Are you saying that they were both red?

Perfect, I'd entirely agreed with keeping things flexible for lvl1. It's tough enough establishing materials when dealing with live action, and with animation it's practically impossible. Are you happy with that too for lvl1 Kevin? If so, do we have the undersuit sewn up for now? Pun not originally intended, but now that I see it I've decided to leave it there.

I think we all seem to be in agreement on the fabric appearance for the top. The animated style of rebels makes the bottoms a bit tougher. It's difficult to tell whether it's a simple flightsuit of similar material to the TIE pilots, or whether it's something more form fitting. My instinct is towards the first. As Ryan pointed out, even the TIE suits look closer fitting due to the animation style.

Huge thanks to you both for chipping in with your experience, it's always a great help. We've had some very positive discussions already to get the draft CRL to where it is, and with you guys jumping in we may get there even quicker now. So going by the "orange yellow" description from on set, would people be onboard with describing it as "amber", or something like it? It would give people a slight amount more latitude towards either the yellow or orange side.

Yep, I'm 99% sure that you're right on that. I think we can safely leave that off the list 😅 Sure if anyone wants to include it for OCD levels of accuracy, it's hardly going to show on clearance photos anyway. This thread can be a reference for GMLs if the question ever actually comes up. So I can say here that yes, if someone actually paints a large white Imperial cog on the inside of their shoulder armour, it's safe to clear it even though it isn't written in the final CRL! Any other points we need to clarify on this part, or any wording needing further revision?

Yes, the key thing is the appearance, rather than trying to specify just one or two specific materials. I think the description we've developed captures the appearance quite well, and someone using a tight fitting British military pullover of the right colour would definitely match up. So long as the look is right howeve, we should leave alternate routes open to people. Are there any other issues outstanding with the undersuit, or is everyone happy with it as it stands?

My apologies, I forgot that part of our earlier discussion - my brain is still catching up from my absence. Entirely agree with your assessment on that. How does the rest of the draft look to you?

Cheers! Would you mind creating a new thread for your helmet and we can give everything the once over there once you're done. I can't see any obvious alterations needed, I just don't want to give you false promises that they're perfect until we've checked the boots in detail. My instinct is that they're as good as anything you'll find off the shelf though 🙂 Red text is just the text I've changed since the last draft - based on discussions we all had over the colour. Originally I put grey because it was darker than the white armour, but the good point was made that it should be a very light grey (different from the Super Commandos for example). So feedback welcome on all parts, but especially on the most recent changes (yellow and red).

HELMET rewritten - changes in red, with my comments in green. White text we seem to all be agreed upon. To keep things simple, I shall refer to the centre greebles and t-shaped vocodor as one item - "the vocodor". As per Kenyon's info, we'll treat this as a separately moulded piece that is inserted into a recess in the mouth plate. Once we are all happy with the wording, I believe the only slightly contentious issues remaining are the colours of the teeth and the top LED. Unless there is more information on these, we may just have to pick a colour, or give builders the option to pick their own interpretation from the possible options listed below. I would lean slightly towards the second option. Gloss black in colour, consistent with the rest of the costume. Is in proportion to the rest of the costume. The eye lens is one continuous piece with a mirrored red tint and should obscure the wearer’s eyes. The central vocodor should be moulded as a separate piece and is inserted into a recess in the mouth plate. Alternately it may be moulded as a part of the mouth plate, but with a prominent recessed outline to create the appearance of being separate. The top part of the vocodor is rectangular in shape, with two clipped dog ears on the top corners. A smaller plate of identical shape sits on top of this panel, leaving a narrow margin around each edge. There is also an angular cut out at the top of the right edge of this plate. A second rectangular plate sits on top of the first, covering the bottom 40% of the lower plate. There is a raised horizontal line on the lower left side of this top plate. There is a small square recess underneath this raised horizontal line. The main body of the vocodor sits below the panel described above. 9 raised ridges run vertically across the vocoder. Angled "wings" at the top of either side of the vocodor ridges, each slightly under 50% the length of these ridges. These wings angle down to rest on top of the main mouth plate. Square profile side tusks run back from the lower edges of this front plate. Recessed rectangular metallic silver screens are inset into the greeble in the front of each side tusk. Each greeble has a raised ridge on 3 sides, angling up from the bottom side of the greeble. Six pill shaped symmetrical recessed stripes on each tusk, with the bottom of the recesses filled with red to match the pauldron, belt accessories and left bicep armour. Small raised horizontal rectangle with recessed line is located below the vocoder. Raised teeth painted silver, with black/silver in the recesses. Alternately the recesses may be cut out and backed with mesh to obscure the wearer's face. I'm a bit reluctant to rely entirely on the Hot Toys here, especially when the show's screens don't have quite the same look, and that it breaks from usual "teeth" convention. Hopefully we may get a second opinion here. Silver rectangular plate on the nose, between the teeth and the front plate, with a silver half moon greeble on top. This plate is recessed below the angled face plates on either side. The half moon greeble is level with the adjacent face plates. Symmetrical recesses with pill shaped greeble on each side between the side tubes and the cheeks. Top of greebles are split in half with the top half being flat and the bottom half having 4 raised ridges that are level with the flat half. Sharp angular cheekbones sculpted into helmet face plate running in a triangular shape below the lens opening. Three raised ridges run from the centre of the brow, over the top of the helmet and down to the rear centre of the helmet skirt. The central ridge is roughly 2.5 times wider than the ridges to either side of it. Top of the helmet is separated from the face plate by a horizontal band running above the brow. A groove separates the top of the helmet and the rear skirt, running across the back of the helmet, meeting the brow band on either side. The side greebles (communicators/range finders) are attached on top of the joins between the band and the ridge on either side of the helmet. Symmetrical rectangular greebles (communicators/range finders) with semi-circular ridges underneath, present at the back of each side of the brow band, situated on top of the point where the front band meets the rear groove. Greeble contains two raised and stacked squares, each with a circular LED or sculpted imitation located near the front, and a single recessed line in the shape of a square outlining the back two thirds of the greeble. OPTIONAL – top and bottom may be lit using LEDs. Top LED must be white/yellow/orange (more confirmation or references needed on this?), bottom LED must be red. Two small pill shaped double indentation in the bottom corners of the faceplate, under each ear. The rear indentation is vertical and slightly longer than the front indentation that angles toward the front of the helmet.

The shape seems quite close to Ph2 Clone shoulder armour, but the outwards curve in the middle is a lot more pronounced: In the screen above, it does also look like there's a reasonable amount of weathering? I'd propose something like the following: Purge Trooper style shoulder armor. Shoulders are tear drop in shape with all rounded edges, as per the references. Armor is painted satin black. Each shoulder has a red Imperial Cog emblem, sized to the wearer as per the references. Armour should be attached with hook and loop or other similar invisible method. Armor has some moderate weathering. Any weathering present consists of grey tones. IAlso, I saw in one screen there is a huge white imperial cog on the underside 😅 Do we include this even though no one will ever see it?

Thanks for the spot, extra eyes are always welcome! Yes, in this case we already spotted that error in the Hot Toys figure, so we'll stick with the screen reference 🙂 Apologies for the enforced absence all. I shall rewrite the helmet text below and see if we can get this part finalised. It's looking like it will be the toughest part, so it will be great to move on to the next parts.