tipperaryred

Most of that is perfectly backed up by the great photos below, thanks a million. Just a few things from that TK CRL to consider: 1) Mention of "mesh" material on the chest and back. Doesn't seem to be any evidence of this in the photos we have so far? If it's just an option to keep heat levels down in the costume, I'd be okay with it being allowed for basic clearance. 2) "Forearms, waist, thighs and calves may be a black, non-textured material." It has already been specified that the base suit should meet this description - no need to repeat. Also, a portion of the thighs are covered with ribbing, so this might cause confusion. 3) The ribbed material is quite prominent, so I would consider requiring that for basic approval rather than just for Lvl2. I would appreciate some more opinions on this though.

So, revising the R1 text below. I took out anything I couldn't see clear detail for in our current references. Is there anything that should be put back in? Eg. Hip section not being ribbed, mesh under armpits? Under Suit Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos/designs. The suit, where visible between hard parts, shall be fully ribbed with all horizontal ribbing, matching the reference images.

Sound, we can go with the special note for all armour parts. If we get to the end of thos process and there's one or two pieces which we feel don't meet the description, we can amend that. I'm happy with Ryan's last text revision for the shoulders, so are we okay to tackle the next item?

Good catch, thanks! We were using MMCC for some of the early reference points, but I forgot to check back on them for this. Their interpretation fits with how I originally saw the 3 layers, but I do still take Kevin's point about the structural integrity of the top layer if it's built as a separate piece. Equally, while some screens clearly show movement between the upper and lower ab pieces, I don't think there's never any real evidence of the chest piece and upper ab piece moving separately? Personally I'd be happy to leave it accessible and allow a build using either method. Potentially narrowing down to one of them for Lvl2?

Yes, exactly so. Lvl2 clearance aims to immitate the screen used costumes as closely as possible, but we want to leave basic clearance as accessible as possible. If someone wears a two piece suit with all the correct ribbing on top, it would be impossible to tell the difference with all the armour worn on top. So if the final appearance is accurate, we don't mind too much how it is achieved 🙂 I know a lot of our own Garrison's TKs can pick up incredibly cheap undersuits from local supermarkets because of this flexibility. Similarly some people might have mobility issues which mean that a two piece suit is much easier to get into. Just a quick question on the ribbing alignment, do we have full agreement that all of it is horizontal? The Hot Toys image above shows horizontal on the neck but vertical on the torso and arms. Have we some clear images of the Japan display to prove this wrong?

It's a good spot Kevin 👍 From other angles you can see that the "upper" piece is continuous: However I think you're still correct that structurally it would be compromised. From the references, we could approach it from either direction. 2 piece is structurally stronger, 3 piece potentially allows more movement. I'd say we can proceed with it as you originally planned. However do we also leave it open for builders to construct it in 3 pieces if they wish? I can't see anything in the references to contradict either approach.

So undersuit wise, we're looking at a plain black undersuit, with ribbed material attached over the shoulders, arms, knees? I notice the keeptrooping version above also has it around the waist? And the R1 TK CRL photos also show the ribbed material around the neck and upper chest. Is it simplest to specify that the ribbed material must be present anywhere the undersuit is visible? Most importantly the shoulders, elbow, thighs and knees? EDIT: The screen footage is unfortunately much too dark to be much use, but the Hot Toys seems to confirm that the ribbed material should be worn over the undersuit anywhere it is visible.

I'm sure you'll handle it no trouble 😉 A lot of TKs leave the pieces attached semi-permanently and just leave it open at the sides so they can put the whole piece over their head. It's probably the easiest option for this too.

The vertical designs on the abdominal plate seem to always sit inside the cut outs at the bottom of the lower chest plate. So maybe aim for a TK style construction with the lower chest plate fixed under the edge of the upper chest plate with snaps or velcro? Same with the abdominal plate and lower chest plate? Each of the three compromising of a front and back plate joined as invisibly as possible at the sides with snaps or velcro?

So with regards to the torso armour, is it safe to summarise it as being in 3 segmented overlapping pieces - upper chest, lower chest, and abdominal? Plus the shoulder plates hinged underneath the upper chest plate?

Flight suit text has been amended to allow for a neck seal if a turtleneck is not worn 👍

For lvl2, only two real possibilities stand out: - We've already got it written in lvl1 that the mouth plate can either be a separate part, or be made to appear like it is. For lvl2 we could specify that it must be a separate part? - Potentially with the LEDs, I know it is not unusual for base clearances not to require electronics. Could we do the same here and only require functioning electronics for lvl2? I would suggest to leave the teeth recesses as they are (recessed silver, not cut out), simply because the reference photos seem so clear. Unless anyone has any knowledge of any on set helmets being set up differently?

I'm getting page not found errors on both of your last links unfortunately. I'll check it on my laptop later just in case it's my phone playing up. EDIT: Can confirm it's showing as a bad link on my laptop too.

Finally, a detailed breakdown of the right ear cap and antennae. I was able to get good measurements for these, so I've broken everything down as a percentage of the total height of the ear cap and antennae combined: I tried to make it as clear as I could, but please let me know if anything doesn't make sense! EDIT! I forgot to include it on the diagram, but the percentage for the depth (blue line marked 76px) is 7%

A quick run through of the sides (I'll leave the right ear cap until the next post) As before, the red shows roughly where the recessed panel lines above the visor should run. Yellow shows where panel lines should continue. Also, blue shows where maybe we should also add panel lines?

The back is a lot harder due to the poorer references screens we have. Measurements aren't possible, so I've had to eyeball it. First, in red, the top panel lines need to angle backwards from the front, like I mentioned on the last view. Also, they should be raised up higher at the back so that all three lines are higher than the ear plates. In blue, the panel should be a little narrower. In green, the central plate should then be made wider to fill the space created by narrowing the blue plates. In purple, this cut out should be moved to match the central plate growing. It also looks to be a straighter line along the top than you currently have in the draft model. In yellow, there seems to be a much smaller gap between the bottom of the central plate and the rim at the bottom of the helmet. In pink, the three rectangles in the centre of the plate - I think the middle rectangle needs to be slightly shorter, with the top and bottom rectangles being slightly taller. What do you think?

@Kenyon, one little niggle on the helmet model - the central ridge over the top of the helmet looked a little wide to me, so I scaled up a side by side and checked the relative measurements: I reckon the central ridge ideally needs to be about 90% of its current width, while the side ridges need to be about 115% their current width. The gaps between them are perfect. If it's a quick fix then that will get it even closer to perfection, but they're pretty small margins so don't stress if it's going to involve a huge amount of work.

HELMET draft rewritten - most recent changes in red. White text we seem to all be agreed upon. To keep things simple, I shall refer to the centre greebles and t-shaped vocodor as one item - "the vocodor". As per Kenyon's info, we'll treat this as a separately moulded piece that is inserted into a recess in the mouth plate. Gloss black in colour, consistent with the rest of the costume. Is in proportion to the rest of the costume. The eye lens is one continuous piece with a mirrored red tint and should obscure the wearer’s eyes. The central vocodor should be moulded as a separate piece and is inserted into a recess in the mouth plate. Alternately it may be moulded as a part of the mouth plate, but with a prominent recessed outline to create the appearance of being separate. The top part of the vocodor is rectangular in shape, with two clipped dog ears on the top corners. A smaller plate of identical shape sits on top of this panel, leaving a narrow margin around each edge. There is also an angular cut out at the top of the right edge of this plate. A second rectangular plate sits on top of the first, covering the bottom 40% of the lower plate. There is a raised horizontal line on the lower left side of this top plate. There is a small square recess underneath this raised horizontal line. The main body of the vocodor sits below the panel described above. 9 raised ridges run vertically across the vocoder. Angled "wings" at the top of either side of the vocodor ridges, each slightly under 50% the length of these ridges. These wings angle down to rest on top of the main mouth plate. Square profile side tusks run back from the lower edges of this front plate. Recessed rectangular metallic silver screens are inset into the greeble in the front of each side tusk. Each greeble has a raised ridge on 3 sides, angling up from the bottom side of the greeble. Six pill shaped symmetrical recessed stripes on each tusk, with the bottom of the recesses filled with red to match the pauldron, belt accessories and left bicep armour. A small raised horizontal rectangle with a recessed line is located below the vocoder. Raised teeth painted silver, with angled recesses painted the same colour. Silver rectangular plate on the nose, between the teeth and the front plate, with a silver half moon greeble on top. This plate is recessed below the angled face plates on either side. The half moon greeble is level with the adjacent face plates. Symmetrical recesses with pill shaped greeble on each side between the side tubes and the cheeks. Top of greebles are split in half with the top half being flat and the bottom half having 4 raised ridges that are level with the flat half. Sharp angular cheekbones sculpted into helmet face plate running in a triangular shape below the lens opening. Three raised ridges run from the centre of the brow, over the top of the helmet and down to the rear centre of the helmet skirt. The central ridge is roughly 2.5 times wider than the ridges to either side of it. A winged greeble sits below the centre of the brow ridge, above the eye lens. The top of the helmet is separated from the face plate by a horizontal band running above the brow. A groove separates the top of the helmet and the rear skirt, running across the back of the helmet, meeting the brow band on either side. The side greebles (communicators/range finders) are attached on top of the joins between the band and the ridge on either side of the helmet. Symmetrical rectangular greebles (communicators/range finders) with semi-circular ridges underneath, present at the back of each side of the brow band, situated on top of the point where the front band meets the rear groove. Greeble contains two raised and stacked squares, each with a circular LED or sculpted imitation located near the front, and a single recessed line in the shape of a square outlining the back two thirds of the greeble. OPTIONAL – top and bottom may be lit using LEDs. The top LED must be a warm pale yellow (similar to a warm incandescent bulb), the bottom LED must be red. Two small pill shaped double indentation in the bottom corners of the faceplate, under each ear. The rear indentation is vertical and slightly longer than the front indentation that angles toward the front of the helmet.

I think if everyone is happy with the two new features, and we are settled on "warm yellow" for the top LED, we're good to go. I can redraft the text and make sure that everyone is happy with it.

Yes, I think you're right, it's probably safest to wait until we've double checked the sides and back before you start making any changes. No point doing the same job twice if we can get everything done in one go! I might get a little time in between work today, but if not then I'll try to find some time over the weekend. I'm taking Del Meeko on a troop tomorrow, but I should have some time on Sunday with some luck.

Very true Marcin. We have enough clear images to know that it *should* be a turtleneck, but it may be hard to find this "off the shelf". As Kevin says, I think we should leave both options open. If someone finds or makes a turtleneck top that meets the description, great. If they can only find a top with a low cut neck and cannot get it modified, they should be allowed to wear a neck seal so long as it is the same material as the top. Something like the following? It is permitted to wear a separate neck seal if a turtleneck top is not worn. However, the neck seal should perfectly match the colour and material of the upper part of the flight suit, so that it appears to be the same garment when the chest armour is worn on top.

And just a little bit more on the shaping at the bottom of the faceplate: The bottom edges of the lower cheek plates should look like a straight line from the front. The top and bottom edges of the teeth should be slightly curved. Also, the bottom points of the red face plate seem to stick out slightly, so that they are lower than both the cheek plates and the bottom edge of the teeth.

Just to be extra clear on what I meant about the main proportions, this is what I mean: You can leave the middle part around the eye visor exactly as it is.

Looks spot on to me... Fantastic work folks.

I had time at lunch to start on the detailed exam, so here's what I have for the front view so far. I put the front view side by side with the best screen we have, resized to match the scale. I then took measurements to see how everything compared. It's incredible how close you've already got so many of the features already! I then prepared a summary of where I think we could get it more accurate: Don't worry about some of the tiny percentages, I'm not suggesting that if the right antenna isn't 3% shorter it's going to fail clearance 😁 So if it's going to take 12 hours to make a 3% change somewhere, please don't wasting your time on tiny stuff that no one will notice! This is just to try and find out what the "perfect" helmet is, compared to what you've already created. It's entirely up to you how close you want to get it. I'm also very aware this is an animated helmet that we're recreating, so realistically you may need to change some of the proportions slightly so that it actually fits on a human head! In summary though, the main points: Both antennae could be slightly shorter and thinner. The dome needs to be slightly taller, while the lower half of the helmet needs to be slightly shorter. Earcaps need to be a little narrower. Central visor needs to be slightly narrower. Top and bottom cheek panels need to be slightly less curved. I think the hollow where the top and bottom plates meet is currently too deep and sharp. The bottom edges of the helmet should look almost straight from the front view. The recessed panel line above the eye visor could maybe be a tiny bit narrower. Where the top panel lines run over the ears, they should be angle back gradually, not running straight up at 90 degrees. Everything else looks great to me. The main eye visor in particularly is absolutely perfect!