Blackwatch

Back plate change log 1.1. I have altered the text so many times the forum page isnt respondng correctly to my edits. im pasting it direct from Notepad here to see if it will line up correctly. The new Hero term is used as well. Change log 1.1, minor edits only. Back Plate, Hero version with hat. Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering. to match the chest armor and helmet. Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate. Chest and back plate meet at the sides. Black foam extends from the arm openings. There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie. Hose connecters are painted gunmetal grey. Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside. The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray painted to match the rest of the armor. Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside. The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey. The vents at the top of the recesses may be painted a contrasting dark grey inside. Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present. There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess. There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie. There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into. The raised slot is painted gunmetal grey. Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The front buckle shall match the raised slot color. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses. There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through. Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through. Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U. Back Armor Change Log 1.0 Back Armor (Garrison Checkpoint version with helmet or hat) Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering. to match the chest armor and helmet. Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate. Chest and back plate meet at the sides. Black foam extends from the arm openings. There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie. The hose connectors are painted silver. Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside, all painted silver. Silver does not leave the edge of the box opening. The vents at the top of the boxes are painted black inside each cell. The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray painted to match the rest of the armor. Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside. The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey. Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present. There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess. There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie. There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into. The raised slots are painted silver. Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The buckle shall match the raised slot color. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses. There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through. Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through. Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U.

Sounds resonable to me. In staff discussion we have discussed tabs to keep it all straight. Im going to go up into the text I just wrote and rename them "hero" .Thank you Simon!

That was my question, no bellows or expansions or anything like on BDU pockets. Its a plain, simple, boring pocket. Ok, we are set then. lets have a look at the back armor. I know there are differences in how the armor appears out on the checkpoint when Andor and company join the local Garrison group. Here is what I will refer to. The back armor boxes are different colors, and the mounting points for the straps are different. The silver boxes look like a very sloppy repaint. This is the Garrison Checkpoint Guard. This is Andor and Company (now referred to as "hero".) Back Armor Change Log 1.0 Back Armor - Hero with hat. Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering. to match the chest armor and helmet. Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate. Chest and back plate meet at the sides. Black foam extends from the arm openings. There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie. Hose connecters are painted gunmetal grey. Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside. The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray painted to match the rest of the armor. Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside. The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey. The vents at the top of the recesses are painted black inside. Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present. There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess. There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie. There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into. The raised slot is painted gunmetal grey. Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses. There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through. Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through. Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U. Back Armor Change Log 1.0 Back Armor (Garrison Checkpoint version with helmet or hat) Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering. to match the chest armor and helmet. Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate. Chest and back plate meet at the sides. Black foam extends from the arm openings. There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie. Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside, all painted silver. Silver does not leave the edge of the box opening. The recesses at the top of the boxes are painted black inside each cell. The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray painted to match the rest of the armor. Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside. The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey. Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present. There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess. There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie. There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into. The raised slots are painted silver. Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses. There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through. Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through. Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U. One point we will need to circle back to is to align the chest armor buckle paint color; hero guntmetal, checkpoint silver.

Im in agreement here and its a discussion we've had at Staff level, regarding Tabs and how to manage them. To me its the same as the Armored Officer, its separated from the traditional officer, although they share the same base olive uniform. I would like to write that seperately, with what we have already written. Also, it will allow people to kit up with soft parts while armor is in progress, exactly as the RP is to the TIE. I think that for across the board, and since we have makers already starting this, to have the double row of stitching written in at the start. Most of our flightsuit makers already do this. This is just another flavor of fligthsuit. What about the box pocket construction? for me thats an L2 for all versions.

I have updated the first page CRL draft with the chest text. Thank you all for the input. That was a good solid honest discussion and Im grateful for it. I want to circle back to Alexandres posts with his prototype tunic. Personally I am all for having a "blouse and boots only" version of the troops, since they clearly played critical roles in the series as well as the Empires occupation. I looked at Alexandre's tunic and the saved ref images. Does the lower pocket feature the box construction? It looks like a simple pocket on the arms and chest If I am looking at it right. I would like to update the tunic text to include the following: Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic. Pocket flaps shall have a double row of stitching. PLMK regarding box construction, I feel that is an L2 requirement. Ive made those and I dont like making them. Without going to far off track, I do see the line in the one image going across the front of the pants. Some of my old original BDUs from the 80s had that line, something to do with the contstuction and how the legs fit. Not all had it at the time, and the later BDUs did not, but commercial "ripoff" BDUs have it. Once we fix up the text for the tunic, we will get the back sorted .

If we agree on the text above we can clear and loc, then move on.

Thanks Shane, that helps narrow our paint focus. TeaJay I'ts the raised area on the left where you indicate. Its a direct copy over of the existing muddy armor text, all of our re-used texts for uniform bits align across the board. We did full rewrites on scouts and troopers so they all matched as far as text. I went back through the images I captured before I had to leave on my road trip and found this one. We see black straps and buckles with silver chipped buckle front edge. The armor is a very dark green/grey. The helmet, at least in this high speed blur shot, doesn't even look like its the same color as the armor. The black straps are definitely darker than the armor it lays against. Yesterday I started painting samples, using model paints and Montana Gold paint I have on hand. I ordered some other paint and it will be here tomorrow. Ill get those samples painted , and photograph under various light conditions and get those posted as soon as I can. Im going to update the helmet text. Look this over, if we all agreee that the text is right and I dont have any typos we can clear and lock to move to the back armor. Chest Armor change log 1.2 Chest Armor Chest armor matches visual references. Accurate shape/design to front of chest. There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section. Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are gunmetal or silver with black recesses. Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The shoulder strap is black. It is permitted to be made of cast flexible urethane or other flexible material. To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square. On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards. Chest shall be painted a very dark grey. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor. Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver.

Good morning everyone. Lets steer the topic back on course, we need to finalize the chest armor. Ill come back to the tunic, but I want t to clear and lock the chest armor before hitting any other parts. I have 50 years of model building. 40 or so of that using thousands of spray cans. I can line up ten different colors all marked the as the same color, by ten different model and regular spray paint makers and they will all look different. Testors paint was notorious for different batches looking completely different. I use FS color coded paints for almost all of my models, which is US Federal Standard. I can use five different FS32019 or FS34012, and each one will look different applied to the same surface applied by the same person at the same time. At every model contest it's always the same "looks too green to me" or "looks to grey to me". Its all subjective, and depends on how it was post processed plus our monitors, etc. I sprayed Montana Gold Stealth and its just grey. Maybe FS36118 Gunship grey after the plane has sat out in the Florida sun baking for a few years. Nothing particularly dark about it. I bought TS4 but I do not believe it will be particularly dark. Ill get some blackgreen RLM70 and test it. TeaJay thanks for the links and research. Its a rabbit hole, I know. * Do we know WHERE the armor was built? Was it in California or in the UK? That will tell us more about what paints were used. If the armor was built in the UK it may be a Halfords color. I looked at the Halfords website and they use more color names associated with car models than color plates. To me, (at least on the monitor and we can never trust that,)the MW 7070 looks like gunship grey FS36118 on the plane straight out of the Air Force paint shop. Perhaps a bit too light. It would need to be sprayed over fresh, wet black so the colors blend, but that has its own disadvantages. the paint gets splothcy, on purpose, before the weathering that ICAT and Mud's get. When the Mudtrooper was written we knew what was used, and wrote to that- Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U, which is the same that ICAT drivers do with their colors to get a mixed color. A trooper building his rig in Venezuela or Ukraine will have completely different stuff than a trooper in New Jersey or California. Not to get too deep into decades old German prewar colors (still in use today) but a color like RAL 7021 Black Grey was once called Dunkelgrau and still is on model paint bottles. Dunkelgrau is a color contrast I use in small model cockpits to give some color depth to an otherwise all-black cockpit the size of your thumb. Its dark alrght with the barest hint of charcoal grey. Who knows, maybe thats what was used. I am really leaning towards RLM or RAL colors now. That Sherwin Williams Greenblack has the right color flavor, at least on my monitor. Id love to get some and run a sample, and get it wet and see how it looks on a cloudy day. We can continue to discuss it here and through the back armor, but we will need to get it nailed down no later than the biceps and shoulders which will run as one discussion. We need to accept a range of acceptable shades. Honestly I dont even know if we can do this for L1 or L2 because we dont have a definitive color. Perhaps we can do a tabbed CRL, that would give us better choices of color and range. If we find out what was used we can adjust the CRL later. Using tabs would let the black uniforms be grouped correctly as well. to quickly go back to TeaJays point "Are the greens of the surrounding environment giving the armor on Aldhani a slightly different perceived color than that found on Ferrix even though they may be the exact same color? " Within the posted photos, we see that the buckles change as well as the back plate shoulderstrap mount, going from silver to overall color with the different troopers. This leads me to believe its a full repaint, with flexible cast black straps and adjoined buckles. Only the buckle part got the paint with the flexible straps. ICAT and Mutroopers are getting their straps made from flexible TPU printed on home 3d printers. if you had the mold you could cast it. Heres my suggestions, as always feel free to reword this because it may make sense to me writing it , but not to everyone else. This is still subject to speculation at this point. We do know that all shoulder straps are black. I beleive that the buckle was also cast black, and repainted at least twice. Chest Armor change log 1.1 Chest Armor Chest armor matches visual references. Accurate shape/design to front of chest. There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section. Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are gunmetal or silver with black recesses. Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The shoulder strap is black. It is permitted to be made of cast flexible urethane or other flexible material. To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square. On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards. Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered. black. shall be painted a very dark grey. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor. Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver. Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43 As always, please discuss further.

OK-SO! Here I sit in a hotel room, with my work finished and Ive been thinking about this all afternoon. I have a few minutes before dinner I went to the hobby shop and there it was , staring me in the face. Black Green: a RLM color used on German WWII airplanes on the propeller and sometimes on the fuselage. There was a lovely FW190 hanging over the cash register and the prop was the perfect shade. Exactly what we need and commonly available on model paints in the RLM paint range. Reiche Luft Ministry. RLM 70 is very likely what we are looking for. Good old BlackGreen. Here is one link to one model paint range that carries RLM70 Model Air Vallejo RLM70 Black Green 71021 acrylic airbrush color (acrylicosvallejo.com)

Im about to leave on a road trip for work. I MIGHT get back to this this weekend, but likely not. Shane your point about the armor, and something I read about actress Denise Gaugh filming her scenes makes me think these scenes may have been filmed early on, then the armor painted? I looked at the shins pretty closely and dont see any broken (yet).

TeaJay please dig up more! I rewatched the episode twice today at work but I could not get screengrabs. Irritating. I thought I was going nuts, because some of the Ferrix Rix Road armor does look black, especially when the troopers line up with their shields in front of the funeral party. In other scenes the background characters, typically someone getting flipped or otherwise battered, is the very dark german grey. Im really leaning towards Tamiya TS4, and whatever the Montana Gold spray paint color would be. I just walked outside and shot my spare ICAT visor MG NATO number 1170. Definitely GREEN. Then for defecations and snorts I shot the other side with MG 7070 Stealth. Its dark grey for sure but no darker than any dark grey primer on US store shelves. Tomorrow Im going to try to stop in at the hobby shop and buy some TS4 German grey and compare. Then we will have a definitive answer if it is even close. Ive been around a ton of models for about 50 years, and most German greys do not get this dark. I believe all of the shoulder straps were cast in one piece in black flexible latex. Like the same rubber latex we use for TIE pilot straps. The buckles on the chest got painted for the checkpoint scene and were painted gunmetal for that one scene, at least on Andors company. The other troopers, the regular Garrison troopers, have silver buckles that appear brighter. The shoulder strap mount on the back armor is bright silver, so Im really leaning towards a full black repaint for the Rix Road scene, at least for SOME of the black-clad troopers, while the background troopers only got a partial repaint to get rid of some of the silver parts, as I cannot see any silver boxes or shoulder mounts. If you go to the scene were the Officer calls for the troops to form up outside, all the backplates are all-black (or superdarkgrey), and do not have the silver box inserts. I just printed my boxes so I dialed straight in on this detail. During the pushback scene where the boots are clearly seen, we see that the shin armor (not seen before on these troopers) matches the armor color, in this case the very dark grey/black/green. I apologize for doing this but I couldnt get a screengrab of this background trooper, so I had to take a pic of the screen with my phone. UGH! But, look at the black helmet strap and the black belt. Even the boot is a different black shade than the strap holding the shin armor on. Color saturation and sheen are totally different than "black", and I think this is an unpainted checkpoint trooper in black clothes.

Were working on the Andor troopers that carry E10s, and there are a few differences, but in the end its an E10. What STL file is acceptable as a base for the E10? I see one on CG trader thats 46 USD for the file. Another on Mudtrooper.uk is free. Has anyone printed this that could tell me about the file itself? If it reasonably accurate without a lot of surgury? Im not worried about making the bits to make the Andor E10, thats no problem, just curious about the difference in the free file vs the $46 file, if any.

excellent observations and discussion points. Im not getting silver from my viewings for the details OTHER than the buckles. I see your point on the black recess, its just that. I have printed buckles; I'm at work right now but I'm going to pull my buckles out and look at them, however I do know that using magnets on the bottom of the Mudtrooper.UK files, there is a recess for a big magnet. They have at least part of a bottom. It can all be dremeled off but I dont know if they will work right after that unless a different method to secure the buckle to the front is used, maybe permanently mount that and feed the straps to the back after you put the armor on. After last nights episode (had to watch that twice) the all black Ferrix troopers have black shoulder buckles that dont show anything. I need to rewatch to get a better view of the chest area. Would the production team use only one color? its possible with the cost cutting that happens in production. I feel as if two colors are being used on the buckles. The buckles below look silver, while Andor's company looks gunmetal with slight corrosion. Looking at this image, out in the rain, somewhat natural light, the rectangle on the side of the chest looks different (to me) than the E10 bolt, belt buckle and even the cap disc. On the other details, Red 19 is what the JRS calls for for the commpad red squares, so thats consistent. Its not a bright red. One note- shall we define which shade of black? Satin or semigloss? SO,- lets go to CL 1.2 Change log 1.0 Chest Armor Chest armor matches visual references. Accurate shape/design to front of chest. There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section. Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are silver with black recesses. Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square. On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards. Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered. black. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor. Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43

Nex up in the CRL order is the Chest Armor. Mudtroopers, Armored Cavalry uniforms, etc all move directly to the chest and back armor after the tunic. Heres the mudtrooper chest armor base text with my first revisions. Essentially similar armor, with noted differences. Chest Change log 1.0 Chest Armor Chest armor matches visual references. Accurate shape/design to front of chest. There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section. Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are silver with black recesses. Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted red. The raised rectangle greeblie is painted light grey. Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white rectangle is present on this raised square. On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards. Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered. black. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43

If were in agreement, I'd love to lock down the tunic text at Change Log 2.5 then move to the chest armor keeping our standardized CRL methodology in place. Change Log 2.5 Tunic A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. Two black tunic hooks to hold the belt in place are permitted. If used, the hooks will pass from the inside of the tunic to the outside through holes on either side of the tunic at the hip. The belt covers the holes. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. The top of the arm pocket flaps are in line with the top edge of the chest pockets. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

@PM07 you bring up a point I had not considered. We know the distance on the coverall based uniforms, all based up on location of the patch. With the followup of the tunic prototype offered by @bubuc44, I will add it. The prototype tunic has the pockets at mid-arm, well below the location of the original screen-seen items. Im going to incorporate it in this Change Log. Keep these observations coming! Change Log 2.5 Tunic A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. Two black tunic hooks to hold the belt in place are permitted. If used, the hooks will pass from the inside of the tunic to the outside through holes on either side of the tunic at the hip. The belt covers the holes. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. The top of the arm pocket flaps are in line with the top edge of the chest pockets. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

It looks like I left that Oxford comma out. Ill add that. Here is the revision. if we all agree, I believe this will finalize the Tunic. Change Log 2.4 Tunic A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. Two black tunic hooks to hold the belt in place are permitted. If used, the hooks will pass from the inside of the tunic to the outside through holes on either side of the tunic at the hip. The belt covers the holes. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

Congratulations, Trooper!!!! Welcome to the Imperial Army! Lets get that Specialist application started.

wow, good catch, thats reallllllllly low. Ill adjust that in the text. Ive had a thought coming into work. I backed away from the emphasis on the hole, and put the emphasis on the tunic hook. What are your thoughts on this to replace the text in the description? Two black tunic hooks to hold the belt in place are permitted. If used the hooks will pass from the inside of the tunic to the outside through holes on either side of the tunic at the hip. The belt covers the holes. Im going to leave this out for discussion and I can edit that in, but I want to make the change to the pockets in this Change Log I have changed jacket to tunic to keep the verbiage consistent. Edited text in red strikethrough has been removed and all green and yellow text discused in the previous edit have been converted. Change Log 2.3 Tunic A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt. if present. If the holes are present tunic hooks must be used to keep the belt in place. ||||||||||||| Under review One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

Were all on the same page, holes are optional, and if you have holes they should have hooks, but not mandatory, at least at L1 approval level. Were going to have makers come out with the tunics with the holes because Ive already seen different makers discuss it on their individual pages. I really dont want to have someone run into the situation (and we have all seen it before) where a maker has a screen-seen feature included, but because its not spelled out in the CRL, a GML will not approve it.

That was my line of reasoning, but this spells it out better. Clarification, in the line above, did you mean to say If optional tunic holes are used on the tunic... or did you mean hooks, since its used twice in the descriptor. Ok let me make that change. Its optional. you can have the holes, but the hooks are supposed to fill the holes. I would want the holes so I can keep my belt from slipping.

My concern with removing it is that in a few months were going to get a forum request to add it and we will be back to this discussion again, and it will come up that we knew about it. There is visual evidence that they do exist, and then there will be a post requesting we add it. Personally I would rather leave it an option for the wearer. There will always be the L3 guys, guys that want the ultimate and will pay any price to get it. Whether we see them or not is less a concern to me, over whether they exist on the part. We dont often see the velcro used to close flaps on the stormfronts, but we know they are there, going back as far as ESB when Luke pulls his coverall on. Its a factor of keeping things in place. My belts slip all over the place, they never stay put. The suspenders look like a pain, but the Wermacht used them for several years to keep the belt in place on the soldier wearing it. Change log 2.3 Jacket A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Olive drab will not be approved. Color of the jacket ranges from olive green to olive tan. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt. if present. If the holes are present tunic hooks must be used to keep the belt in place. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt. If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

You guys are right, when I write something it makes sense to me but I need that third and fourth set of eyes on it. That od chip looks sort of like the original 1942 formula, one pound of lampblack to one gallon of chrome yellow lacquer paint. The WWII equipment restorers use something a bit less color saturated on all their tractors trucks and jeeps. Looks odd after seeing everything in movies being painted the wrong color for years. OK, so agreed, lets just say "olive" and leave it at that. A dye batch will come out how a dye batch comes out. Ive altered the bargain and added the verbiage about the tunic hooks. Ok so lets do this: Change log 2.2 Jacket A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Olive drab will not be approved. Color of the jacket ranges from olive green to olive tan. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt if present. If the holes are present tunic hooks must be used to keep the belt in place. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt. If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

Roger that Calum, now lets get you approved, then on to Specialist!

Agreed, agreed and- Ive seen that fabric before, and the whole "motion picture industry" bit means that this stuff is readily available an surely there is one panel that got damaged and laying about, ready to be harvested. I like the wiki article describing how the space scenes for Star Trek were filmed. So here we are with the next change log: Change log 2.1 Jacket A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Olive drab will not be approved. Color of the jacket ranges from olive green to olive tan. Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt. If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.