Blackwatch

Thank you Shane these are great and tell the tale. SO, the buckles aren't exactly chrome. They have a bit of grit to them. And the soles are smooth like my old boots that I had re-soled. I sure would love to know where they obtain all these boots from. If they are actual, real vintage boots, or made by a boot supply vendor for movie use.

Troopers Thank you for your patience, your endurance, your input and your attention. I guess we are done with the trousers, not much there honestly. We can move on to the Boots section. Base text for Mudtrooper: Boots Jackboot or kersey boot style, knee high smooth black leather or leather like material. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot. This need not be functional. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. Boots shall be tall enough to fit both shin straps. Boots shall be heavily weathered. Boots should form fit to the calf and not be loose. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Boots do not have a zipper. Boots are made of leather. But this is not a mudtrooper boot. Its a regular jackboot, shorter than mudtroopers, and more in line with any other non-officer. It is not heavily weathered, just normal from walking on whatever surface. So lets look at the jackboot description, this is a direct copy of the IOC's bridge crew boot section of the CRL. Change log 1.0 Boots Calf high black leather or leather like material. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. If seams are present on the shaft they are at the rear only. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional. Jackboot buckles should not be shiny/can be painted dingy grey or gun-metal color. Hobnails may be present on the front of the jackboots. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black. German "jack boot" style boots are most canon. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Boots are made of leather. So this is where we rely on the power of photos to tell the tale. Are the buckles actually dingy? On Rix Road they are clearly silver and reflect light, but what about on the trail on Aldhali? And, are hobnails present? They are not on Rix Road, we have clear images of the bottoms of the boots there, but what about on Aldhani?

I dont know much about what goes on on a movie set, so Privacy Cloaks is interesting. What do they do? Why did you wear them? TeaJay I can delete the L2 hat line about the back flap. If we are happy with the pants, we can press on to the boots. I will come back to this tomorrow so we have time to get any more discussion in overnight.

I wear my ICAT trousers all the time at work so I can break the color down before I submit for approval. The knee reinforcement on the ICAT is a double layer added to the trouser leg. This Aldhani trooper goes down to mid shin, while ICAT stops above the knee. These behind the scenes shots are impressive, I can never find these when I go looking for them. Based on my own experience of making a set of ICAT trousers with the reinforcements added to the front, and looking at the very clear BTS shot, the reinforcement on this trooper is a single piece of double row stitched fabric. My own ICAT reinforcement has a separate shadow and highlight that this misses completely, so this is a single piece of fabric. Which also means it was easy and quick to make up for an almost unseen part of the trousers. Change Log 1.1 Trousers proposal: Olive green pants matching the tunic and hat. Fabric is a denim textured material with a visible weave. There are no visible pockets. Trousers feature a long reinforcement panel on the front of the leg from mid thigh to below the knee. This panel is double row stitched. It does not extend to the side seams of the trouser leg. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Trousers have a double-stitched seam running horizontally across the mid-thigh, visible below the bottom of the jacket edge.

Thank you Simon!! I agree this is something Cassian wore for the show only. Great suggestion. @fb501 can you give us any insight on what kept the trousers up in place?

This is good, honest, healthy debate, and Im glad to see it. It irks me when a CRL or Standard is written and there is zero Member input. This is the first time this detachment has defined a armored and non armored variant of a costume. This is new ground for us. I am happy to report that this Detachment has been granted the non-armored, Garrison-duty version of the Aldhani trooper! So, going forward with that very good news, Id like to move on to the trousers, using the Mudtrooper as the base , but it will be completely rewritten. One question,( and I dont have D+ available to me at work right now where Im typing this) are there belt loops or a set of suspenders on the trousers? I am certain there are scenes on Aldhani with the tunic off around the camp, but I dont have reference pics in front of me. Mudtrooper Base text: Pants Black pants with double reinforced thighs. They do not have visible pockets or other adornment on the legs. Shall be moderately to heavily weathered. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Pants are made using heavy cotton. Change Log 1.0 (Proposal) Trousers proposal: Olive green pants matching the tunic and hat. Fabric is a denim textured material with a visible weave. There are no visible pockets. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Trousers have a double-stitched seam running horizontally across the mid-thigh, visible below the bottom of the jacket edge.

Thats exactly what I needed to know. Thank you so much!

Thank you so much it will let others with the same question know as well. BTW who is the armor maker?

good deal, and as always my continued thanks for all the support everyone is throwing into this project. Im going to post this final version (CL 1.4.1) into the first post of this topic. We can move onto our trouser discussion next.

OK WHERE did my text go????? argh. Ok, ill add it back in. Again. Sheesh. This editor keeps eating my text. Change Log 1.4.1 (final) Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Gloves shall have a U- shaped adjustment at the wrist. Dents brand gloves or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Rogue One type Code Disk without grooves at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) wide, 3" (76.2mm) tall and 1" (25.4mm) thick. Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Belt has a groove at top and bottom edge of the belt along its length.

Thanks Jason! Can you do me a HEWJ favor? Im bigger than most, I have a wide chest. Can you measure across your armor to show us how big it is? From side to side across the opening of the chest would be brilliant.

We need to keep in mind that the final determination of which Detachment gets the soft version has yet to be made. Fraser Im glad we have your insight on all of this. It is tremendously helpful and cuts through to what was happening on -set. So, going back to our gloves and belt discussion, we are at change log 1.4 with latest revisions. I believe we can lock that down. Change Log 1.4 Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Gloves shall have a U- shaped adjustment at the wrist. Dents brand gloves or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Rogue One type Code Disk without grooves at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) wide, 3" (76.2mm) tall and 1" (25.4mm) thick. Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather.

wow guys, just wow. I dont believe we have ever delved into dye batches at anything approaching this in Spec Ops. Face it SO is mostly black. This is some outstanding effort overall!! That should be enough paint to completely paint two full sets of armor, maybe more.

Its a fair point , which we had discussed starting on page 3 and going into page 4. These costumes were made en-masse and who knows what happens when you are doing batches of jackets, batches of trousers and batches of hats. I agree that Aldhani was given the Imperial Reserves treatment, however I feel very strongly that if you are doing just one uniform-yours- you are going to mix one, and at most two batches of dye and go with that. Ive had VERY little success with dyes over the 14 years ive been doing this, so I make one batch and hope it works. The fabric will take the amount of dye the fabric will take. With our current text the CRL calls for the fabric to match. Officer uniforms call for the fabric to match in weave and color, with at least some of the CRLS stating that the weave of tunic hat and jodpurs exactly matching. Ours gives just enough room for slight variation in color, while the fabric must match. Currently there are two makers, IB and Jim Tripon making these, and soon there will be more. @TeaJay is experimenting with his batches, using provided scrap fabric, and we shall see how his progresses. Our belt lines, which we have no evidence for not being in place, are written as L2 so a person can re use a belt they already own without lines.. I'm making all new belts with the grooves in place already, its just a step before I dye the leather, so if it was a L2 option which later becomes an L1 (like with how the Scouts have changed over the years) I'd be ready for that inclusion.

i forgot, I will add that. Change Log 1.4 Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Gloves shall have a U- shaped adjustment at the wrist. Dents brand gloves or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Rogue One type Code Disk without grooves at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) wide, 3" (76.2mm) tall and 1" (25.4mm) thick. Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Belt has a groove along the top and bottom edge along the length of the belt. Buckle may have a very slight curve.

Any chance for pics outdoors, both in bright sunlight and on a cloudy day?

out-standing!

Simon I am with you. Until I joined Spec Ops I never had a leveled costume, mainly due to the boot and calf size. There will always be those members who will go to the Nth degree for accuracy. Others may troop one time a year at night in a Mardi Gras parade. We have several troopers like that here in Bast Alpha. TJ thanks for doing the dye tests. Thats going to help a ton of people. So, if we are in agreement, then we can close out the Gloves and Belt sections. Please let me know if there is further discussion on these topics before we move on. Change Log 1.3 (Final) Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Gloves shall have a U- shaped adjustment at the wrist. Dents brand gloves or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Rogue One type Code Disk without grooves at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) wide, 3" (76.2mm) tall and 1" (25.4mm) thick. Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Buckle may have a very slight curve.

TJ I hate the RIT dyes, I fail far more often than I succed with them. i wish you the very best of luck with this. Please document your entire process, including any boiling and how many clear rinses you did, and whether or not you use salt or other chemicals. I find it makes a huge effect on how finished RIT comes out. Our belt grooves discussion is valid, we cannot see every troopers belt, but all of the characters we can see close to the camera have the grooves in the belt. I know the officer corps has the options on lines & boxes, but what we see here is what we see. We see grooves, and boxes on all that were close enough for the camera to capture. In our Mudtrooper CRLs, which this is based upon, the belt CRL photo shows grooves, however there is no mention of the grooves in the text. With all that said, I cant find any images of a belt without grooves. For me this is an L1 feature. I have several belts, I buy slabs of leather and dye them and add a snap. Is it cheaper? in the end, no, but I control when things arrive and get done that way. Change Log 1.3 Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Gloves shall have a U- shaped adjustment at the wrist. Dents brand gloves are most accurate. or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Rogue One type Code Disk without grooves at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) wide, 3" (76.2mm) tall and 1" (25.4mm) thick. Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate. Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Buckle may have a very slight curve.

Those are two completely different colors! That photo is great, it even shows that light grey square on the side of the chest armor, and you cannot see the pulley grooves on what would be the Mitchell 78 record player pulley. From looking at some of them they look cast, like cast resin, I do not see the split line where the lip of the box would be. We can write the U as L2, easily done. I'ts not seen, but neither is the strap holding cod pieces to butt plates. I am removing the L2 statement that belt boxes are metal. after inspecting the great image that was provided, I see no evidence these are metal. The edge of the lid are thick, and I see no paint chipping you get with painted tin. Change Log 1.2 Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Gloves shall have a U shaped adjustment at the wrist. Dents brand gloves are most accurate. or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate. Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Buckle may have a very slight curve. Belt boxes are metal, XXX x XXXX x XXXX.

Morning troopers! As always good discussion and all valid points. The belt text is lifted directly from the mudtrooper text, however since it can float around, we can alter it. US Army BDUs had their pockets laid out to put the belt above the lower pocket so you could get into it. Ill rewrite it for variation. For some it will ride under the armor, for others at the lower edge, it will depend on how tall you are. Simon has a point that kept coming up with some of the Rebel costumes, especially the boots for Endor Commandos- those disappeared. Currently the Deahtrooper CRL calls for Doc Martin Jereds for L2. I think we can write it for Dents gloves, or exact replica thereof, as the Deathtrooper L2 CRL is written. Likely there will be a maker come out with a replica glove, especially if it is asked of them. The price point would likely be the same. I did not know there were differences in the belt boxes. I looked at the Officer CRLs but could not find the sizes. I cannot think of but one officer here, that we never see, that even has belt boxes. This is a mostly armored Garrison, and I think we only have the one officer, so boxes arent something that we see here. Im writing it for the olive grey shade, which it looks like to me. But I will need sizes to put in the CRL. lets have a look at this: Change Log 1.1 Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. Gloves have a U shaped adjustment notch at the bottom of the wrist. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Dents brand gloves are most accurate. or accurate replica of Dents gloves. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center. The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. The boxes are Rogue One style boxes. (need dimensions) Boxes shall be painted olive grey. Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate. Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Buckle may have a very slight curve. Belt boxes are metal, XXX x XXXX x XXXX.

Moving on to the gloves and belt. These are different from the mudtrooper, so lets begin with change log 1.0 Change Log 1.0 Gloves Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material. Back of glove has four detail lines across knuckles and a wider panel beneath. Middle, ring, and pinky fingers have a stitch 1” (25 mm) below the fingertip. Gloves have a U-shaped Velcro closure around the wrist. Gloves shall have all logos removed. There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. Gloves have a U shaped adjustment notch at the bottom of the wrist. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Dents brand gloves are most accurate. Belt The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle. The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center. Belt is black and is made from two 1.5” (38 mm) nylon web straps sewn together. The belt features six two boxes, one on either side of the buckle. One large drop box on the right side of the belt. Two small and two medium boxes worn in the center of the belt. One long drop box worn on the left side of the belt. Boxes shall be painted olive grey. and be moderately weathered. Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate. Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Belt is made of leather. Buckle may have a very slight curve.

Ok, so we have let the bicep and shoulder discussion rest overnight with no further input. Those are fairly straightforward, so Im going to clear and lock, then move to the gloves. Great find on the gloves. Agree, Dents will be our L2, but for basic approval I really like what Gary has linked for us. Change Log 1.1 (FINAL) Shoulder Armor Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other. The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical. Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor. Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo. Shoulders are painted to match the armor and helmet. Shoulders are mounted to the shoulder strap via a bracket and 1 or 1.25" webbing strap. Optional rank stripes located on the left shoulder may be present. The stripes are painted on. The white stripe is approximately 1" (25mm" wide bordered by a black stripes approximately 5/16" (6.5mm) wide. The stripes may be semi gloss to gloss in color. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Biceps Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with an added strip layer on top. Biceps are painted to match the armor and helmet.

Ok, so if we are all in agreement with the base text for the Shoulder and Bicep, we can move on. I will let this remain overnight so people who are still getting home and logging in after work have a chance to look through it then we can get to the gloves.

Thats some crazy expensive gloves for basic approval. Theres others that look very similar for a lot less. Durable? maybe not. For the bells how about this: Change Log 1.1 Shoulder Armor Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other. The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical. Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor. Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo. Shoulders are painted to match the armor and helmet. Shoulders are mounted to the shoulder strap via a bracket and 1 or 1.25" webbing strap. Optional rank stripes located on the left shoulder may be present. The stripes are painted on. The white stripe is approximately 1" (25mm" wide bordered by a black stripes approximately 5/16" (6.5mm) wide. The stripes may be semi gloss to gloss in color. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Biceps Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with an added strip layer on top. Biceps are painted to match the armor and helmet.